“...there’s a real human being behind it, as messed up as they are, probably more...
Yeah. They ought to know that.”
Relationship with Chi’el’ah: J-Rod
Dan Burisch: Uh huh.
K: That struck me as incredibly real. And from that point on I was very interested in what you had to say.
K: Because I said, this man really experienced this. This is not bullshit. This is the real thing.
K: So if you could reiterate, kind of how you started working with J-Rod ...
D: Well, he was working with me before I ever knew him. Of course, he was on board, as I understand. I have no memory of him directly but I mean, as I understand it, in ‘73... he had traveled to ‘73 and then ... this is even what I said to Jeff Rense on the phone. You know, I said, “My God, if this doesn’t boggle.” I mean, it boggled my mind. And when you think about paradoxes to start with. That he traveled to ‘73, I was picked up and then he subsequently traveled back to the ‘53 timeframe and there was a crash. Which means that he was held at S-4 in 1973, at the time that I was playing baseball with my grandpa, and that he was also on board the craft, impinging into our time, lifting me up. Prosaically, man, it sounds crazy, but, yeah, it’s a paradox, I guess, I mean... but I actually came into direct contact with him at the end of 1993, the start of ‘94.
Yeah, there is something wrong with him. During the entirety of my experience around him, he appeared the best that I can describe is “off-shifted.” Almost like... I mean, he was physical. I felt him through the glove. There was matter there with me, but almost like he was a ghost with a body. He didn’t belong. He did not belong where he was. Yet when he would communicate, when he would do the entrainment... ah... they “thump” you. Almost... it’s almost acoustically. They thump you, and... until they finally come into contact with the brain-level waves where they can begin communicating. And it comes in waves. It’s almost like flukes on a dolphin. It comes in waves. And then you feel yourself pulled in. As the entrainment is occurring the perception is being pulled in to his eyes. Very unwieldy [chuckle] feeling. But then they entrain, bring you ... bring you down to, you know, relaxed almost to a theta state, like an 8 hertz thing, theta state, where you’re very, almost like drowsy and they tell you, you know, they’re not going to hurt you. He did that. He actually said that he would not harm me.
When he stepped forward on me, when we were doing the old “bride’s dance,” as we nicknamed it, where I would... I was supposed to step forward to him, almost like taking a bride’s step up the aisle, and then he did the thing back to me almost jokingly... but it was so unwieldy because he broke the protocol. It was like everything that had been established of trust at that moment... it went to hell. And I got so afraid. There was an animal response in me at that moment, a very, very human animalistic response... “Get me the hell out of here.”
Yeah, I stepped backward and fell backward on to my back and that is really what I perceived myself as doing. As I said to Jeff [Rense], I felt like I was a cockroach, you know, lying on my back in there. And he walked up on to me. I heard them yelling, “Fire the repress.” They were going to intumesce him. They were going to hurt him, so that he wouldn’t hurt me and I was trying to yell “No!” and I’m not even sure to this day if I really yelled “No” or if it was just in my mind. The stress was that bad at the moment. And he walked, literally walked, up on to me and sat on my chest. He didn’t knock me over or anything. There was, I think, Ron or a couple other people said, “Oh we know he knocked you over in the clean suit.” He couldn’t knock me over. He was too weak to knock me over. Even if he wasn’t, given his size he couldn’t have knocked me over.
K: And how tall was he?
D: Just a little over three feet, hunched down.
K: Uh huh.
D: Almost four feet if he was to be extended out lengthwise, if he would be lying on his back and extended out lengthwise. But the malady, the the pathologies, under which he was suffering, caused him to have... weakness, change of gait, change of stance, where most of the time he was extremely hunched over forward and he really couldn’t stand up straight. When he would walk he would wobble and kind of shuffle. He was very ill, very ill.
K: So he got on your chest. He walked on to your chest, or sat on your chest.
D: He was actually sitting on my abdomen area but he was leaning forwarding on his hands on to my chest, pushing me down.
K: Was he... so he was communicating at that moment that he wasn’t going to hurt you?
D: Yes, he said, “I won’t hurt you, Be-anie.” He called me Be-anie. And that goes to Beanie... He broke English up very strangely.
K: And you heard this in your head, I’m assuming...
D: I heard it in my head.
K: ...it wasn’t out loud.
D: No, I heard it in my head, in my own introspective voice but clearly not coming from me.
K: Uh huh.
D: You know the sound of yourself when you talk to yourself. Self-talk. It’s the same sound except... it’s the wrong linguistics, the wrong wording. You can tell it’s not you. And initially when that happens, too, there is a... From my perspective initially when it was happening, there was a very panicky feeling. But of course that initially happened when I was part of B-unit team when Steven [Dr. Steven Mostow] was still going in to the clean sphere. He looked at me through the clean sphere and spoke to me and said, “I remember,” and “Hello.”
K: Meaning he... the person who was... you called... what was his name, again? The J-Rod looked at you...
K: Chi’el’ah looked at you when you... when Steve was in the clean sphere with him...
K: ...he turned around and looked at you...
D: Yeah. He turned around and looked at me. I was part of a B-unit team to start with. In fact, that was going to be my actual occupation in there, was assisting the chief scientist and going into the clean sphere, until he identified me as somebody, I guess, special to him... Chi’el’ah ... and he wanted me to be the person to go in there. That’s why I was promoted, ultimately, to the working group later in there. Because I didn’t have the background, did not have the seniority. I... it was not my place. But that’s why the, the promotion happened.
K: OK. So...
D: The way a lot of promotions happen in the world, I think. But...
K: [laughs] To go back...
D: The Peter Principle.
D & K: [laughing]
K: So he went on to your chest, he told you he wasn’t going to hurt you. Did they actually zap him then or did they...
D: I don’t believe so because I would have felt... he began to entrain me immediately and strongly. He relaxed me. The encephalins and endorphins were going big time. They entrain on several levels and they are able to relax you by actually flooding you with natural opiates.
K: Uh huh.
Marci: Like a runner’s high.
K: So. What happened after that? You... I’m assuming...
D: Or the high that you receive as you are going through the natural death process.
K: Uh huh.
M: Uh huh. Yeah. Where you naturally kick out the opiates...
K: But... OK. So, but what happened after that?
D: Ah... after that I began to sink away from what was going on in the clean sphere and with the panic that was going on over the radio... because I heard ‘em. We had two separate units, an E unit and B unit on the radio. They were like separate radio frequencies. And I could push the button and talk independently. But they were stepping over each other, screaming, saying, “Get a secondary unit ready,”... to get me out of there. They were going to enter in to pull me out. And you can’t just step in there that quickly. I mean, they’ve got to suit somebody up to bring them in. You knew before you were going in there that the J-Rod ... ah... We were trained that they were a threat.
D: So that we were not supposed to communicate privately with them or anything like that we had a certain job to do and we would get it done. And that was the scientific job of removing the samples and then the study of the samples for the back engineering use of the reversing life chemicals.
K: The idea was to reverse his... an illness that he and his people have ...
K: The 52s?
D: The 52s. And what we were trying to do initially... jumping off on to the biology a little bit... what we were trying to do is we were trying to actually strip the exterior cytoplasm off from the cells and... ah, produce cells which would be independently functioning, then to understand those cells biochemically, genetically, so that those cells could then be re-added as a graft into the J-Rod to attempt to ameliorate the neuropathy. That’s what one of the, the stated goals was. Easier said than done. But...
K: So okay...
D: We were told, though, that if something would go wrong in there, there would be no immediate fix. You, you weren’t a million miles away, but you were several thousand when you were inside there. So you were very alone even though you had radio communication. It was essentially being isolated on the space shuttle, if you will. And not that easily... you know, not that easy to get you home. Because they had to do all the repressurizations of the gantry, bring somebody new in, then get you out, then get you detoxed ... the cleansing... the decontamination, and then get you out of there, then get you out of the suit, then give you medical treatment. So we’re talking a couple hours. So if something goes wrong in there... and they are potentially able to harm you because of the, the entrainment... you’re dead. And that’s... you accepted before you ever accepted going in there. And... But to a large part it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t bravado on our part, saying, “It’s no big thing,” but you had to accept that just to work inside the facility. You knew that if there was a... a contamination, if the alarms started going off, the old joke was, “Get in a straight-backed chair, and lean way over and kiss your ___ good bye.” It was over. Because if the alarms started going off, you were sealed into the facility and they were going to pump the gas in and fire the fuel-air device. Whoa! That’s what the... that’s what the explosive valves were for. The so-called escape tunnels, for you to get out in case there was an emergency? Those were blow-off vents...
D: ...so they could blow off and explode the facility, blow off out of the Papoose Range and keep the remainder of the facility intact.
K: So... but your experience with the J-Rod and the other ones you’ve met have basically... Were you afraid for your life at any time? In other words, did you actually...
D: I was afraid for my life when he stepped toward me. Absolutely I was.
K: At that moment...
D: At that moment, but it was a very transient... you know, it was an ephemeral moment.
K: How did you...
D: ...that, that passed off very quickly because biochemistry helped me calm down when he entrained me.
K: How did you feel, though, in your, sort of, interactions with him? In other words, do you feel that... You said that you didn’t remember knowing him in the original meeting...
K: ...in the space ship. Right?
K: But he remembered, clearly.
D: He remembered.
K: So did you feel that you actually developed a friendship with this being...
D: Oh, I absolutely did. I absolutely...
K: ...and that it grew over time... or did you feel that it was instantly there?
D: That’s a good question. I’ll say that I felt a kinship to him all along from the time that he first looked over at me. And that may have been a consequence of me being picked up in the park. That may have been. My trust in what he was saying to me grew over time.
Marci: Because I remember asking you that. I specifically asked you that.
D: Yeah. My trust grew over time.
K: But it was perhaps on a deeper level...
D: There was an extant kinship there with him.
K: Uh huh.
D: And I think that may have started because of the pick up in ’73, I think. I’m trying to surmise it. There was a pickup of the jovial nature of our friendship over time. Certainly... because I’ve got kind of a strange sense of humor and he was able to be friends with that kind of same weird sense of humor, where he would look over at me and he would tell me that... what his behavior was... because I couldn’t tell when he was happy or when he was sad because of physical characteristics, that easily. You know, you can tell fairly quickly with a human being from now: if they’re happy they’re smiling at you. But I couldn’t tell if that was pain or what it was on his face until he specifically informed me that that’s his smile, that’s his laugh. As that grew, my relationship with him grew. I became more attuned to his physical responses as well and I think that picked our friendship up as well because I’m more associating with another human being with physical reactions as well, you know, in the communication. And they were less so. So that was difficult. That was very difficult. Until I became attuned, where I became more relaxed into what his physical responses were. When I knew he was laughing, after that, then that got me into trouble with the folks in the facility because I reacted naturally to his physical responses. And so I would smile or whatever over at him, and they would say, “What is transpiring between you two?” I’d hear it come over the radio.
K: Uh huh.
D: Sometimes I would out and out lie to them and say, “Nothing.” Because I was afraid. I had... I did... I had a fear of losing his friendship too, because I wanted to learn more from him. And so I was willing... and these are the same people that, you know, will point the gun at me with very little compunction against it. I was willing to be friendly, too, because he was a captive there as I was feeling, too, a captive within Majestic, because I had been brought into a program that I had no clue for what I was being brought into. So I felt kind of trespassed against, too.
K: Uh huh. So you had a camaraderie in that sense.
D: Yeah. We were both prisoners in our own right.
K: Did you think that he had the ability to protect you?
D: No. I... in fact, it was... if anything, it was the other way around.
K: Uh huh.
D: I was covering for him and a lot of his anger. He had anger in him too, and pain. And anger as a result of pain from the samples being removed. I was covering for him by not telling them of the anger, because then they would have followed an operant conditioning protocol that had been set in, against him, to penalize him. So I was actually protecting him.
K: So, but did he...
D: He’s a human being, for Christ’s sake. I mean, you get stuck with a needle enough times, you get perturbed. And when you’re being treated like crap on top of it... a prisoner is a prisoner.
K: In what way was he treated like crap, as you put it?
D: If he wouldn’t respond as they told him, they would fire a repress valve and change the pressurization in the clean sphere, causing mild to moderate intumescense, a change of pressures in his skin, because he was of lesser density, physical density, as in weight per volume, density. The reason why I’m clarifying that is I’ve heard a lot of new-agey comments about 4th density. I don’t know about all of that. As in weight per volume type density, he was less dense, physically, than we were. His bone structure was less dense than we were. So when they would fire the, the repress valve, or they would intumese him, it would cause him great pain. And I was screaming “No!” and I think, you know, that the time that he stepped up on to me, I think they thought the better of it at the moment because he was clearly entraining me at that moment. So if they would have fired the pressurization at that point, I would have felt the pain that he was feeling. And it might have killed me, I don’t know.
K: Right, because you developed a... from what I understand, you developed ... like the movie ET, you developed the ability to actually feel his pain.
D: Well, it wasn’t even... it wasn’t even developed. It was immediate.
K: Oh, it was immediate.
D: The thing which was developed.... and I’m not sure. It may have actually been some sort of a neurological habituation. I’m not certain of that. But the thing which was developed was the inability to disentrain, to break off from him.
K: Even when you left the clean sphere? In other words, regardless of where you were?
D: [nodding yes] Within, ah, a certain range. Within, you know, like a 15 meter range from him.
K: For example, right now?
D: I was... I could...
K: Right now, could you...
D: No, no no no.
K... feel his pain?
K: If he wanted you to feel it, could you?
D: No, I don’t believe so. I don’t believe that they’re, ah... capable. I mean, you know, we’re talking... now we’re talking time difference...
K: Uh huh.
D: ...his lack of physical existence in our reality. And even if we’re talking no time difference, we’re talking about a linear distance of how far between here and Reticulum. Good God. No.
K: He’s back at Reticulum now?
D: Yeah. Far as I’m aware.
D: Far as I’m aware.
D: As far as I’m aware as to where he returned to. That’s the best information I have. And, frankly, from the time that... when it happened in 2003 they don’t even want to discuss the matter with me because it’s a real sore point. I did what I was not supposed to do.
K: Oh... you pushed him through a time hole...
D: I pushed him into...
K: ...a star hole.
D: ...one of the stargate units, yeah, into the gray patch between the posts. Yeah.
K: And that was the end... at the end of your relationship with him?
D: That was the end. That was the last time I saw him.
K: I mean, was that...
D: It was the end of their relationship too, which is why they’re so pissed off.
K: Why were you motivated to push him into...
D: He asked me to. He told me he wanted to go home. He wanted to see his son. So I did.
K: So he was a prisoner, but at some point you were in a position... I’m thinking this was in Egypt.
D: It was.
K: Somehow you guys were, were taken to Egypt?
D: Yeah, I was flown there.
K: And so was he.
D: Yeah, but over a different transport. He had... he was already present by the time of my arrival. There was a communication protocol going on. He was communicating something. I was never really told. All I was told was that there was a problem with his communication and they wanted me to be there to cause him to relax or whatever, to facilitate the discussion. And so they wanted me basically there as an idola theatri, as an idol of the theatre. They wanted me present. They wanted me there, as a ruse of kinship with him.
K: And had you...
D: And the kinship was no ruse. And that’s something that that they misinterpreted, I guess, over these years, that I have more of a kinship with a present day human versus him. And to me, although he was, he was off-set, although he appeared different, that he didn’t belong, he’s still a human being, and a human is a human is a human to me. So I had a... I had a true friendship with him. There was true affection there between the two because he was showing me things from his childhood and I was showing him things from mine and we were actually enjoying each other’s experience of each other in a... a friendship. It was a true friendship and I don’t really think that Majestic ever regarded it that way. They feel themselves so damn superior, or that we’re superior to them. And maybe it’s a reaction. I don’t know, maybe I’m rationalizing it, that it’s a reaction to the P-45s feeling that we’re inferior... the so-called rogues’ feeling of us. Maybe it’s some sort of a railing against that or a reaction against that, that they developed the attitude. I don’t know, but I know that I wasn’t superior to him and he wasn’t superior to me... much brighter, but we’re still just human beings. And just ‘cause somebody is brighter than somebody else, it doesn’t mean they’re superior.
K: So, in... I’m just trying to figure out why in Egypt... he was there and obviously doing some work with them.
D: He was there as part of a communication program that they had ongoing after our program... well, way after our program, almost a decade, after ...
K: Almost ten years later?
D: Well, I mean, you know, it had ended in ‘96 and we had some more briefings in ‘97 but that was about it.
K: So you’re saying that you... this happened recently, that you pushed him into the stargate?
D: It happened at the end of 2003 and... you know, I could tell from the relationship with him that he was being honest with me. Now, again, there have been those that have criticized and said, “Well, look, this guy is 52,000 years along an evolutionary line,” which does not necessarily make him smarter, but certainly not better if you look at the... the pathology, but... that he had the ability, if he was a human being, to lie. Hm? Yep. And we talked with each other about lying and Majestic never knew that.
But he told me about things which would be happening in the future, inconsequential, generally inconsequential, things. And then there were some very consequential things. But some generally inconsequential things that happened subsequent, which told me, not only was he from the future, but he had access to future material because nobody could have predicted conversations. But that he was being honest with me as well. I could feel his heart. And that’s all we can really do. You know, they... they turn it into a joke on Coast to Coast: “The Coast to Coast AM Challenge with Bill Burns and George Noory. Will you step up to the plate and take this polygraph exam?” Now... because polygraph doesn’t work. If a polygraph worked, we wouldn’t need juries. We judge other people, other human beings, by their honesty, by empirical data and evidence as well, but by their spirit as well. And... the spirit that I judged him by was what I was feeling from him, from his heart, from his mind. And I judged him by his relationship with his child, by how he regarded his mother, by all of these things that we choose to regard, in the human family, to make decisions about each other. The same things... I mean, these common things were still present.
D: There were very, you know, many uncommon aspects to their society to the negating of emotion, and the negating of personal names out in society. It was still being carried within families. There was a common theme to the human family which was still extant in his time. And... I used that as part of my prudent discernment of him – or God, I hope it was – that he was a good human being.
K: So, you assisted him in going through the stargate.
D: I pushed the Segway-type transport set on the stroller. They, they looked like Bell jars, almost, over top of Segway-type strollers where you could ... you know, it was almost... almost waist height, where the, the bar was. Well you could push it in whatever direction, and it took very little effort to move it. Ah... and he asked me to go home.
K: So you pushed him and...
D: I did.
K: ...and what happened to you when you pushed him?
D: I pushed forward, then the next feeling was a feeling of numbness. [chuckles] I... For a brief moment I thought I had really screwed up and maybe killed myself or whatever because I literally felt numb everywhere. Then I remember a flash of gray. And then I was seated, coughing, on a block about 20, 30 meters away, maybe. And I had people rushing up to me, still over-dramatically actually cocking an automatic firearm at me, screaming at me. And I was grabbed, picked up from the block and taken over and said, you know, “You’re under arrest.” And, I mean, I had committed a violation of the protocols. And I was being threatened with weapons to my head and things like that.
K: So how did...
D: “What did he say to you?” And, you know. Or, “Are you a spy?” And, you know... They were just acting paranoid. No. I wasn’t a spy. I just shoved him into the stargate and he went bye-bye. And that’s essentially what happened.
K: How did you... how did Majestic react after that, to you?
D: Very angry, very angry, including the people with whom I’m the closest... save the one present. Very angry toward me.
K: And how did they act... How does Majestic act when it’s angry? I mean, I guess this gets back to.... weren’t... haven’t you been tortured? I mean, isn’t this right?
D: I wouldn’t... I don’t call it torture aside from the fact that I’ve been falsely imprisoned. That’s torture. I was for a couple periods of time put at S-4 in, in level 3, and basically told, “That’s where you are for now.”
K: Level three meaning...
D: At S-4.
K: Was that a cell?
D: Ah, no. It was one of the, the rooms, one of the, the small suites if you will which were originally put in there. There’s 12 of ‘em, in this trident. There’s three groups of four. And I was put in the unit one, over to the left. And it was essentially... I mean, it, you know, contained all the amenities. I could ask for food. Got everything I wanted except I couldn’t leave. There was no freedom. I consider that torture. The... the others items are acts of unkindness. And acts of unkindness from Majestic can range from everything from psychological unkindness - being rude to you, to being threatening, to being physically harmful. And I have been beaten. I have been slapped. I have been physically restrained, meaning handcuffed and beaten and slapped. I have been put under lights.
K: Who was...
D: Hell, I had friends doing that to me. But I had, you know, put under intense lights and... while being handcuffed, as in interrogated. I have been told to shut my mouth to the point where two people grabbed me, one shoved me down on to the floor of a garage and the other one stomped on and broke my hand.
K: So... and these were “the members” of Majestic that carried out these...
K: ...attacks? In other words, they didn’t hire someone?
D: Yes... not the J numbers. Not the J numbers. These were operatives.
D: As in security personnel. Yeah.
K: I see. So not the 1 through 12, but people that work for them.
D: Oh no, none of them have laid an unkind hand on me, ever. Great affection, if anything, out of them...
K: But they were under orders...
D: ...like one would show great affection to a pet.
K: These... OK [chuckles] So you were viewed as a pet by some of them ...
D: Well, I’m not saying that...
K: ...but you were also mistreated on their orders?
D: I’m not saying I was viewed as a pet. I’m saying I don’t know what’s... what they’re truly carrying in their hearts, in their minds, and so there exists the possibility that affection can be granted either honestly or disingenuously. It can be granted... ah... person to person on the same level, or as an act of condescending.
K: Well, let’s back up a tiny bit.
D: Well, yeah.
D: [Gesturing off camera at Marci] She brought up the name Tenet. George Tenet... Oh, I better watch my mouth...
Marci: Uh hmm! That’s why I mentioned the name.
D: ...before I get started talking here too much.
M: I know.
D: George Tenet was a former Director of Central Intelligence for the United States of America. Now we’re moving on. [laughs]
K: OK... So, but what you were saying about Majestic has got me interested. [laughs]
D: [still laughing] Sorry...
K: That’s OK. You’re basically saying that Majestic is operating as... is independent of the government. Is that correct?
D: Yes and no.
K: Or are they operating under them?
D: Yes and no. They were set independent of direct presidential authority as far back as the late ‘40s. However, there’s more than one individual who sits... who has sat... as a member of the twelve who are intimately involved with the United States government, to include its highest levels.
K: OK. And so those people were actually...
D: OK. It’s time to put the tap dancing shoes on.
K: [laughs] OK. Those people were actually ordering you to be, as a result, let’s say, of this over... you know, this sort of overstepping the line, pushing J-Rod into the stargate, they were ordering you to be sequestered, to be beaten, or...
D: Well, by...
K: ...harmed in some way?
D: By the time that happened... All the beatings happened prior to that. By the time that happened there was... Basically they didn’t know what to do with me. It took everybody so by surprise... me too [laughs] ... what I did... They didn’t know what to do, and so they really didn’t. I mean, you know, I got hauled around there at the site for a while and I got hauled back here to the US, but I was basically after that just told “Go home.” They didn’t know what to do.
K: So is this why you’ve been released from Majestic, because of this incident?
D: No. No... It was coming near the end of my time, my usefulness, basically, anyway, aside from being ah... almost an elder statesmen with them, because I’d been around for like 20 years. My physical condition has gotten worse. I’m not well, physically. So I would not be of any use inside of a laboratory.
K: OK, but why is there... I understand that there’s been some kind of adjournment, according...
D: That is correct.
K: So why? Why have they changed members? What’s the motivation?
D: There’s a switchover between two secret societies going on. One is handing reins over to the other and it has been long planned. However, it’s not been long known by me. But it’s been long, long planned, probably decades. I’m certain it has to have been for decades. The way they talk.
K: So Majestic is ruled by a secret society, is what you’re saying.
D: Well, Majestic has been the most famous – next to probably the Freemasons – secret society of itself. And there are many of the Freemasons who inhabit the Majestic, as a consequence of their relationships. The two things are happening at the same time. And so their philosophies, then, the philosophies of these associated secret societies, like the Scottish Rite and York Rite, are being imparted into the secret society known as the Majestic.
K: So what’s the quarrel between...
D: You bring who you are to wherever you are.
D: That is a real good, and it’s the best question to be asked, even more importantly than the differences between the J-Rods, because this impacts us, I think, now.
Many members of the upper echelon... and I don’t mean the hardworking people who work on construction sites, for God’s sakes... Many people who are in the upper echelon of the Masonic movement, both York and Scottish rite, have accepted a philosophy which is Luciferian in context and history. Many of the people who are not directly, then, involved with the Majestic, who are also associated with that Luciferian philosophy, have rubbed up against each other for decades, probably even longer. So somewhere along the line in history there was a schism between those individuals who have accepted the Luciferian history, the Luciferian philosophy, mixed with other secret society people who have not, and ended up in the Majestic ... and people who have accepted a Luciferian... almost like a different, ah... denomination? if you will... accepted a Luciferian philosophy who are not associated with the Majestic. In other words, we’ve got dirty coins on both sides.
K: OK. And when you say a Luciferian philosophy...
D: Now... meaning a materialistic, and, for lack of a better term when it comes to the actual European Illuminati, satanic, philosophy, where they have given their lives, their families, their sacred honor, to this satanic thought of creating a world order under the person that they consider the true God, which would be a Luciferian figure. Now, these people have also (separating them from the dirty coins in the Majestic side)... these people have also been accepting of the influence of the P-45 rogues, who want to justify their own history by our demise, moving from Timeline 1 over to Timeline 2, a catastrophe. And so, the differences between the Majestic group, some of which there have been these Luciferians mixed in and the true Illuminati group.... They’re not even really true Illuminati. I mean, that’s a word that comes back meaning “Enlightened Ones,” and these people are not enlightened. They are simply under the influence of a false light. That the differences between the two, then, have raised itself to rancor even though they share much in common with each other. However, on the Majestic side you have a lot of God-fearing people, too. A lot. And I’m not talking about specifically here the twelve. I’m talking about the line people, the people that we’ve worked with. Good people. Good people to the bone, to the soul who, who want nothing but, but good for the world.
K: So basically what you’re talking about is there seems to be an alliance between, for lack of a better word, the so-called Illuminati group that has satanic followers...
D: Uh huh.
K: ...and the P-45s, what you call the P-45s...
D: Uh huh.
K: ...and the Majestic group, which, even though it has some members from the Illuminati, basically is siding with the P-52s...
D: Yeah. I wouldn’t really call them “some.” I would say that they are Freemasons who have accepted the Luciferian influence. In other words, they may personally disagree with it, the Luciferian influence, but are still acting as good people.
K: For the benefit of humanity.
D: For the benefit of humanity. Exactly. And then there are some that I have interacted with who are involved with the so-called true Illuminati in Europe, that are God-fearing people too. There’s dirty coins and there’s polished coins on both sides. However... however, the dirty coins make up the vast majority of the group on the European Illuminati side.
2012: Two Timelines
K: OK. So, what is... Now let’s get to the timelines and explain just briefly, since this gets over into the future and 2012, what the P-45s, meaning they are from the future 45,000 years ahead of us...
D: 45,000 years ahead on a separate timeline to what we are presently on, but a timeline that we could transition over to from where we are now. So, if we are to accept that we transition, God forbid, from Timeline 1 to Timeline 2, they would be considered 45,000 years and 52,000 years, respectively, ahead of us.
K: We’re on Timeline 1 now, I’m assuming you’re saying?
K: And we’re headed for 2012 and theoretically a catastrophe that may or may not happen.
D: Right around now.
K: Right around now?
D: [laughs] Yeah.
D: [long pause] I don’t know. There is the most honest answer I can provide you. I know a lot of lore about a rogue planet coming in. However, the material that I’ve actually seen... On a repetitive, ah... crossing, if you will, of Earth with catastrophic influences, happens not only because of a matter of physics – ah, “rogue” and I don’t mean this toward like J-Rod rogue – but rogue crossing of the Earth ... asteroids or comets.)
What I have heard is that to precipitate the catastrophe, there would be, as we pass into the plane of the Milky Way, some sort of energetic burst through the plane of the galaxy by virtue of wormholes that are traveling ... that travel through the plane of the galaxy from the center of the galaxy, which have been depicted in ancient lore... called the Serpent Rope... even the ancients... and that theSerpent Rope would return at the time of the end of the Mayan calendar, revealing... and there are several perspectives as to what it will reveal. But that during this same time, the history of the J-Rods record that this burst will cause a disruption in the Sun and that, concomitantly with energetic bursts from the Sun and from the wormholes which would be passing through our planet, that there would be a disaster provoked by virtue of these time travel devices (the Stargate devices) and the time viewing devices (the Looking Glass devices) spontaneously turning on and directing an inappropriate amount of energy into the crust of the Earth, precipitating a geophysical disaster. This geophysical disaster, in accordance with the history of the J-Rods and Orions, record that over 4 billion, 157 million die over a several year period by virtue to the geophysical shift in the crust.
K: So, this is what...
D: I can’t...
K: … is trying …
D: I get numb when I think about the numbers.
K: ...is trying to be prevented?
K: Is this right?
D: Yes. Very true.
K: And how is it going to be prevented?
D: By the disabling and the destruction of such technology. That we will naturally, then, pass through this Serpent Ropes. The bursts will occur, whatever that means. I haven’t physically seen it. But the bursts will occur and there would be an imparting of energy to our planet that will, gradually, naturally, cause changes in the human species and the life of our planet. And that these changes would be positive changes for our people. And I... I frankly think that it’s already happening. There’s a rise, worldwide, in... And I don’t think it’s just a given size in the population increase. But there is a rise in very spiritual, talented people. There is a rise in savants, the Indigo children. It’s a... definitely, from what I’ve seen from reading about them... a real phenomenon. These children are of a new type and I think they are of the Timeline 1 type. We’re seeing, I think in these children, these great kids, an expression of what we will be in our own future, our next kind of step ahead. We’re not looking millions of years ahead or anything like that, but our next step ahead. And it’s a wonderful rise in consciousness that I think will precipitate the next renaissance for our people. I see it happening.
K: So, what you’re saying is the Illuminati... to get back to that thread...
K: ...is basically the side that believes that the transition’s gonna occur from one timeline to the other.
D: Not only do they believe it will occur, they want to provoke it.
K: But what... but how does it benefit them to, to provoke it? Why should they want to be P45s?
D: They don’t. The living ones don’t. They’re looking at the P-45s as, as a means to an end for them. They’re not gonna live that long. They’re just gonna live a normal human life and die, so they want the control for themselves. The fact that the P-45s... that’s how immoral these people are. The fact that the P-45s are wanting us, to, at their stage in their own development, have a disaster which, which justifies their own history, is being used as a means to an end by the Illuminati who would like to see that the population is culled so that they can gain greater control. They don’t care.
K: So, OK. So, what...
D: They just want for themselves. There are really human beings that don’t care, or that care very little.
K: So what you’re saying is the Illuminati want the catastrophe to occur...
K: ...so that a certain number... three-quarters is the number I’ve heard... of humanity dies. They get the Earth to themselves...
D: Well, the history reads about a little over two-thirds.
K: OK. Two-thirds.
D: That’s what the history of the J-Rods actually reads.
K: All right. Two-thirds. And then what? I mean, they still have to live through Earth changes and cataclysms, right?
D: Right. But these people are also the ones who have their guaranteed positions in the safety zones... underground facilities, etcetera. And so they are presumed... it is not known for certain, but they are presumed to have actually been …be …the progenitors if you will, of the people who become the J-Rods.
K: I understand. But in a sense... there is a thought that in a sense the P-45s, that side of humanity, is... possibly becomes almost soul-less.
D: They become repressed. They still have their same souls, because even after 7,000 more years of development, I could see the soul, as you see the heart of another human being... I could see the soul in Chi’el’ah. So, it didn’t leave and then come back...
K: But Chi’el’ah was not a P-45.
D: No. He was a P-52, but that just means that he was 7,000 years along the T2 timeline from when the P-45s...
K: So he used to be...
D: ...were in existence.
K: ...or, his people used to be, a P-45.
K: And a P-46, 47, 48.
D: Yes. Yes... yes.
D: So the soul didn’t go away and then come back. It’s been there. But then... you know what. Look. You can say that some people are soul-less.
K: Uh huh.
D: The Nazis. How much soul did they have when they threw my grandpa on to a car? How much soul did they have? We know that they had a human soul, as black as apparently what it was or as covered over in their demented brains but I still pray for them that they’ve... even them... that they’ve been made whole with God. But they still had their souls even though it was repressed.
D: In like manner, the P-45s have a soul.
K: OK. Well then what... OK. You’ve talked about the P-52 Orions and the P-52 J-Rods. Am I right?
D: Uh huh.
D: They are the ones that prefer to stay out of the safety zones when it happens. They are the survivors who do not go underground.
K: Are these good... is this a good division of humanity? I mean, the P-52 Orion Nordic?
D: I don’t consider any division of humanity good. I consider them the more positive of the two because I consider the positive aspects of humanity to be the spiritual aspects.
K: So you’re saying the Nordic line is spiritual.
K: Was spiritual.
D: Extremely. Yeah.
K: OK. So how does the Nordic line... I mean, you say they stay out...
D: They actually move off from Earth first. The J-Rods, or the precursors to the J-Rods, stay on Earth for a great deal of time, well after 24,000 years from the time of the transition, 24,000 years from now. Because they were 24-or-so-thousand years ahead of us when they crashed in Roswell in 1947. Those were 24s. They stay. The Orions move off first to the place ... after the reestablishment of a society on the surface of the Earth ... technology is refurbished, etcetera....they move off to the place where the Ark is held.
D: Our nearest body, the Moon.
K: The Moon.
D: Where on it, I’m not going to say.
K: OK. Well, this gets into...
D: Because of having to defend against the possibility of Timeline 1 transitioning over to Timeline 2 in a manner different than I’ve been told. And I’m not going to be the person who hands off the wrong information.
K: So... OK, but you’re saying the Nordics are going to get off Earth if the catastrophe happens. Or regardless.
D: They leave after.
K: After the catastrophe happens.
D: Presumably several thousand years after it happens, they leave.
K: Several thousand years.
D: Yes, they move to the Moon.
K: Oh. I was getting the impression you were talking about them going on space ships or something.
D [shaking head no] Not really. No. They move off to the Moon several thousand years, via space craft. They get to the place where the Ark was held and that they re-establish a new community. From there they move to Mars. From Mars, out to Orion.
K: So they...
D: We’re talking a lot of time here.
D: Uh huh.
K: So we’re looking...
D: As best as I know.
K: ...we’re looking forward to our future when...
D: We’re looking at a paradox.
K: ...when we’re looking at the ruins.
D: Yeah. We’re looking at a paradox of their ruins, which they left on another planet.
K: In the... in our future.
D: In our future.
K: In our possible future.
K: OK, well, to come back...
D: [pointing at Kerry] She’s actually got the best command of this information of anyone in the public with whom I’ve spoken.
Marci: I know.
K: [laughs] Thank you. That’s a very sweet thing to say.
D: It’s honest.
K: Thank you. We’ve got a... I’m getting another question here from our small audience, and I must say that Bill Ryan...
D: Bill Ryan of the Orions? [laughs]
K: Bill Ryan is also sitting with me and, and listening to this amazing information and asking some good questions.
Bill: When we’re looking at Mars, are we looking into the future?
D: Now the question is this...
B: I just don’t understand that.
D: The question of... of the day is that what is going to happen? What is going to happen when the... when the transition occurs and we either continue on 1 or, God forbid, number 2, happens? If number 2 happens we’re not going to be worried about Mars. We will have much more important things to worry about at that moment.
Let’s say, God willing, and I think we will, remain on Timeline 1 ... what’s going to happen with our imagery of Mars? I think that we will probably remember taking images of these anomalous structures. And there have been some anomalous structures imaged on the moon as well. I think we’re probably going to remember that. At least I think so. If we don’t, it’s not going to matter, now, is it?
K: So what you’re saying is we’re gonna go back to the idea that we never... that there are no... is no face on Mars.
B: But there’s a profound paradox here...
D: There is.
B: ...because what I hear you saying is that we’re looking through telescopes, where we’re receiving light in present time, with a few minutes difference...
D: A few minutes.
B: ...that’s being reflected off objects on the surface of Mars, that we’re actually looking at a possible future.
D: That’s right.
B: I don’t understand.
D: There are impacts into our timeline now which have occurred. This is the information that I received not only from Chi’el’ah, but also from the material within Majestic. There are impacts into our reality now, our timeline now, by virtue of the amount of time travel which has occurred. Every time they have gone back in time, they have caused small paradoxes which have built up as our reality that we now perceive. In other words, there is actual Newtonian superimposing. And that is a frightening thing to me.
K: So, it’s almost like putting money in the bank, though, every time they come, from the P-45, in a sense. Their timeline...
D: I look at it more as creating a larger heap of manure. [laughs]
K: Well, OK. [laughs] Emphasis appreciated. However, nonetheless, it is like a deposit towards the actual occurrence happening. It... I mean...
D: I don’t know.
K: ...they are agents of change, in a sense.
D: They are agents of change as all human beings are agents of change. But I don’t know whether there is a cause effect, whether there is a nexus between cause and effect, having to do with their amount of time travel and the superimposition which is going on in our reality, and the disaster itself. I think that the disaster itself, from everything that I’ve read and heard, is a direct, ah... consequence of the technological aspect of bringing too much energy toward us, in a non-natural manner.
K: OK. Well basically you’re saying there’s two timelines. I mean, I’m sure you’re aware of the work of physicists now that are saying, “Look, if you can have two timelines, you can have two million.”
D: Well, don’t we really have three? Or four. I’m discussing 24,000s. I’m discussing 45,000s, 52,000s and present day. How many timelines are that? Because these people moved ahead linearly in their timeline. Just because we want to call it Timeline 2 doesn’t mean that there are other effects or superimposings which are occurring on different realities during even their own timelines. We don’t know.
K: Exactly. I mean there’s a sense in which what you are talking about is not so much that the P-45s, for example, Timeline 1 exists, as it will actually separate from our reality and become more like a parallel reality instead of an intersecting one.
D: From what I understand, the people who are just prior, which would be us according to their history, to the people who were just after, exist as a straight vector of time. So in other words, God forbid the catastrophe occur, it will just appear as tomorrow and a catastrophe occurs, etcetera, etcetera, and we move forward and changes start occurring in the Earth, there is a disaster, there is a loss of, of huge life, etcetera. You won’t probably feel anything change aside from the fact that we’ll all be running scared for our lives. Aside from that I have no explanation.
K: OK. You’re saying that if the catastrophe occurs.
K: But if it doesn’t occur, there’s still the element in which we have been visited by, by a timeline which really does exist in a sense ...
D: I... I...
K: ...and how do you unmake something which has been made? [Dan shaking head no] That’s kind of... I mean, it’s kind of more of a philosophical question...
D: I don’t know, and all I can do is defer to the creator on that ...
D: ...issue because all we do is perturb...
K: What has told you that this is true?
D: All of the above.
D: It’s all of the above, plus information directly from Majestic.
D: No, I didn’t use it, personally.
K: ...in discovering? Were you in... No?
D: No. Oh, no no no no. This is an original technology which was derived from ancient cylinder seals, by people from our future who provided it to us, meaning the rogues, the P-45s.
K: OK. The people who...
D: We wouldn’t have...
K: ...are negative.
D: That’s right. We wouldn’t have this lovely technology if it wasn’t planted in our past for us to use now. The entirety of the technology must either be disabled or destroyed.
K: In other words, to unmake the technology.
D: Until at least...
K: So that...
D: ...after we pass through this time period. There is no way. From the deceit, the conceit, the avarice, and the greed that I have been around over the last twenty years... so that’s the good side of these two dirty coins. There is no way that they’re not gonna start this equipment back up again if it’s usable after this. Of course they’re going to. Come on. I mean, they’ve got this... it’s like a magic box... to try to see into the future. What they’re going to do in the future with regard to that, I’ve got no clue. I have no power over it and I have no clue.
K: OK. So this Looking Glass technology comes from cylinder seals.
D: Originally, yes.
D: Originally it was a series of instructions for accessing the wormholes, which naturally pass in the hyperspace in which we find ourselves. And from there they worked on the technology, they built the equipment from the instructions. After building the equipment from the instructions, they began to tweak it and find different things out about it. One of the things that they found is that they could actually use it as a peering portal, like a peering glass, if you will, to see different aspects of, not only the future, but the past.
K: Are these Sumerian... ah, Sumerian...
D: I would say that they slightly predate Sumerian timeframe but that some of the information which came down from cylinder seals that slightly predated the Sumerian timeframe were then recopied in Sumerian seals as well, and ...
K: And Egyptian?
D: ...those cylinder seals... Oh yes. And those cylinder seals, to the best of my knowledge, have all been obtained.
K: From Iraq.
D: Some of them from Iraq. Yes.
K: Some of them from Egypt?
D: Some of them from other... Some of them from Egypt. Some of them from other countries where they were being stored.
D: And I really don’t want to get my country into too many problems here. [laughing]
K: And, and you got...
Marci: If we could stop for a second...
K: Go ahead.
M: I want to reiterate. The rogue P-45s jumped back, seeded the technology because...
D: [nods head yes] Uh huh.
M: ...that’s what they wanted to do, was to seed the land to help facilitate the catastrophe. Because by placing the technology available they knew that... it would be utilized. And as long as we as people... Oh my God. [camera turns to Marci]. But, they wanted to go back...
D: Oh please, tape her!
M: ...and seed the technology because they felt that, as people, we would be unable to break ourselves away from using that technology.
K: How is it that this technology is being utilized now? And isn’t ... if you’re talking about a wormhole, isn’t it the same thing as a stargate?
D: Essentially, yes. The technology is not being utilized now. Anywhere we find it, we take it.
K: Who’s “we?”
K: Because you have warring factions.
K: You’ve got the Illuminati on the one hand, you’ve got the Majestic on another.
D: Yep. “We” is the... we is the United States as part of the UN. You know... I don’t really want to comment too much about NATO and who’s controlling the NATO alliance at this point. But....
K: Isn’t it a fact that the Illuminati....
D: We’re doing most of the lion’s share.
K: ...would be stealing back this Looking... ? I mean, if they want it to happen, they... Their objective would be to steal these cylinders and get them...
D: [nodding head yes] Yes.
K: ...so that they could use the Looking Glass technology.
D: Yes. But they can’t show up as an aggressor to steal anything back so what they do is they vote against us.
K: How does that stop...
D: Well, it plays out...
K: ...the technology?
D: It plays out in the UN. Well, we had Looking Glass technology, and portal, actual stargate technology, in Iraq, as late as the start of 2003. And a lot of countries don’t want us... didn’t want us to enter Iraq. We did, though, didn’t we?
K: Right. But how is it that... In other words, if...
D: Moammar just handed his two over. We just told him that we were going to make him rich beyond avarice. And he was a little smarter than Saddam, that’s all. And so what he did is he handed them over and says, “Oh, please, come into my country.” He says, “Look at my equipment to make sure that I’m not making any weapons of mass destruction.” Meanwhile, out the back door goes the two that Saddam actually had transferred over to him.
D: Well, equipment, stargate...
D: ...technology. Yeah. For them to experiment with. They were experimenting.
K: But if the Looking Glass technology is the same thing as... it accesses a wormhole... The technology...
D: It actually...
K: ...it accesses a wormhole.
D: ...does that. Yes.
K: It also accesses stargates.
D: Well, that’s essentially the same thing. I’ve been using the term stargate technology...
K: Stargates occur...
D: ...to mean a machine that accesses a wormhole by spreading out the energy, the strange matter or whatever it is... and I’m not a physicist... that spreads it out in a compatible way to either communicate through it... or passage of information. That includes also...
K: But, it occurs...
D: ...physical bodies.
K: ...it occurs naturally. Stargates occur naturally.
D: Indeed they do.
K: So how do you close those?
D: You don’t. And we don’t want to. We don’t want to. The history reads that the natural passage of us through this energetic space is a good thing. But it’s our use of technology which provokes the catastrophe.
K: So it’s...
D: It’s our enhancement of this natural system, inappropriate enhancement, which provokes the catastrophe. And so, no, we don’t want that to happen. I think that the energetics that we’re passing through is part of what’s happening to us naturally, that’s changing us in a positive way. It’s part of the loving cosmos that we’re part of. I think that’s probably one of the factors, not all, but one of the factors for the rise of these beautiful children, the Indigo children. And, and I’m all for it. I’m all for it.
K: So we want to leave the stargates, the natural stargates. They’re leaving those alone.
D: Right. We want to keep our hands off of nature. Pull our hands away. Get it away from the fruit of the tree of life, so to speak... get it away, and just let nature happen during this time. That will be a good thing. However, we also have people who oppose that because they want what they want when they want it.
(continued in Part 3 - please click here)